order that came in after the healthcare bill was passed. >> yeah. david: there is a lot of authority we don't know about. >> this is just the tip of the iceberg, this is something thatter american understands, --o. they will have an idea. if they didn't understand before they understand this, this risk defining the whole thing. because everyone getting it. >> lindsey how many more executive orders do you think will be thrown in? >> that is a concern, we don't know, we're still finding out what is in the bill, and how this affects the consumer. david: your friend rick was laughing, and cajoling, any executive, a republican executive. bush administration, nixon administration get more executive power, you get worried, you are not worried about this administration? >> no, i was not --

>> please. >> did you hear me complain? >> i did not know you. >> i am sure you were screaming about it. >> i don't believe that. >> you -- you -- many members of congress read the law before they voted on it. david: 2, one. 1 thank you, our big network wide special report on real estate all day tomorrow, right here on fbn, and 8:00 p.m. on cavuto. real story about real estate real estate from people like don possible els, and mort zuckerman and joh jon huntsman. john: school spending it through

the roof what is wrong. >> the blob. >> like the reformers are up again jab at hut. >> the unions, and paper pushers. >> let's destroy the system. >> bridge on th bring it on, whd disagree. >> shame on you. john: teachers unions disagree, they are mad at me. >> city schools are terrible because of unions like yours. >> our test scores are not what we choose to focus on. john: how do you know if they are learning anything. >> i know they are learning whether i look in their eyes. john: give me a break. >> they also oppose charter schools. >> over my dead party. john: unions are mad some charters can fire bad teachers, what is wrong with that? >> a teacher wants to teach. john: this actor said this teachers need tenure. >> why else would you take a [ bleep ] salary? >> most provisions do not have

tenure, wit but now there is soe good news, some schools were teachers can be fired, kidding learn, give us worse school anywhere in america, and we'll outperform the other schools in 5 years. john: how good are test scores at his charter school. >> not evennard word for it. >> unions say they avoid the problem kids. >> no way, i love school. john: up to now, adult have run the show. made ud stupid in america. john: school spending has tripled in last 40 years, what do we get? fancier schools, but student learning? no improvement. there is the line. for 40 years, scores have been flat. more money, and no improvement. but there is some good news.

around america, some very cool things are starting to happen. school is boring. >> no it's not! john: it is. i know, i went to school. grade school was boring. so was high school. so was princeton. except for the party part. but furth grade? you have to learn reading and writing, that is work. >> reading is work. but it is rocking awesome? john: these kids say school is fun? >> yes. john: how is this fun to learn? >> they teach us in a fun way. john: you look forward to going to school. >> yes. john: these kids attend one of those new charter schools, free public schools but their charter lets school escape bureaucracy of regular school, including teacher union rules this school enrolled inner-city kids that are labeled risk of failure.

>> going to our school, is a ticket to educational success. john: this woman runs several charter schools, all get outstanding test scores. you do this with the same money that public schools get. >> we do it with less, 4 and 6,000-dollars less per child. john: how did they get them so interested? in math and ? >> yes. >> and reading. >> and writing. john: learning is work. >> it don't matter? john: the school day here is longer. kidding stay until 5:00 p.m. >> charter teachers can be asked to work more than union would have allowed, they don't mind. john: i are going to burn out, why are you not ticked off? >> that is not an option for us, we have the high end of the prize with the kids. john: they have new teacher techniques, sometimes teachers

wear earpieces in class, and coached by bosses. >> they tell me things that i don't see, if i don't think of a great question if the moment, my principal feeds it to me through the earpiece. >> we view teachers as athletes in the olympics they need support and coaching, to be at' top of their game. john: these kids wave their hands around, it confused me but, then students explain, it is what they call active listening. instead of interrupting class to blurt out say, can go i to the bathroom or i agree with that, students make hand ges gestures, what is the symbol for agree. hightivity scorehigh -- test sce charters so popular parents lineup. this line goes on and on, forever. around the block. john: so many applicants but not

that many spaces. what do you do with thousands of people and a few hundred slots? they hold a lottery. the winners are happy but sadly there are many more losers. on other end of america oakland, california, another charter cain getting similar results with different method. >> give me the worse school in oakland, black, mexican, polka-dot. we'll take it and we'll outperform the other schools in 5 years. years. john: ben chavis created the model of the school in a rough neighborhood. >> these are hard workers here. john: the the kids at american indian schools have some of the highest test scores in california. you can do that on same statement that -- amount that state gives other schools. >> we get less.

>> the kids in american indian public charter schools score so far above average it was the state for public schoolchildren there isn't a word for it. john: they use different techniques from charters in harlem, they pay some kids to tutor others. >> we hire our students and pay them, they are excited, they are going to make some money. john: chavis is politically incorrect? >> what are you going to study, science? a mexican in seics, good for you, you will be a rare bird. john: he has been criticized for imposing strict rules. >> they want us to succeed. john: a teacher made this student do push ups in the hallway because they didn't follow directions. >> you have to try hard when you are here. >> i hate saturday school. >> my other school we didn't have as much hom homeworker we e 6 subject of home wore, the

teachers were a lot nicer but here they are a lot meaner. john: no student has been expelled since school ban in 2000? no way. i love fools. i love the kids who get in trouble. because you can take a kid who is acting like a fool or getting in trouble. and use them as an example. john: you're critics say it is cruel. >> that is true. embarrassment keeping people in line. john: even gym class is strict. >> at my old school we played games, here it is either running for 10 minutes or running around the block. john: you fire people at your school. >> they should be fired. david: you fired a teacher after one day? >> she was incompetent. >> last year i thought i was going to get fired a few times, if i am not doing a good job it

is over. john: that is not true with most government run schools, e especially union ones, these charter teachers can be fired. john: you can be canned in a moment does that bother you? >> if i'm not doing my job, per say, and i was fire the for that, so be it. >> if i was a doctor, and i was not good, i would not have a job, no one would come to me. john: you cannot maintain quality unless you can fire people. >> it as many as we must. john: have you fired more than 10. >> in three schools, in 8 years, yes. john: while bad teachers might get fired, good teachers are given freedom. >> they choose their textbooks and teaching message as long as every quarter, and every year make sure that the students are learning what they need to learn at the end of day. david: in harlem, 43% of eighth grader get passing grades.

100% of her kids pass. if they work so good, why are there not more. because unions and supporters of traditional schools hate charters this one protest out side of eva's charter. >> i hope its not personal but it may be. john: this union boss does not want chapters in his school area, buzz he get to stop them? i will confront the unions about that and other stock exchange strange saying that union bosses said. saying we should not judge teachers on how well students do on tests. >> how do you know if kids are learning anything? >> i know they are learning when i look in their eyes. >> what? more, stupid in america, when we return.

>> those great new charter schools we showed you. i wish there were more, more competition because competition makes everyone better. but there are some people who don't like my saying that. >> shame on you! shame on you! john: the teachers union, 5 million members strong. this group is mad at me. >> we're here to demand a apology from 20/20 john stossel. john: i had done another show called stupid in america, and said it was impossible to fire bad teachers, the union boss said because of my program. >> educators all over feel they have been kicked in the teeth. john: they were surprised when i came outside to hear them, the union said i should be educated.

the crowd liked the idea of me teaching for a week. >> teach, john, teach. >> i think i surprised them again what i said okay i'll teach. but then they changed their mind. union president randy wine garden won't talk to me any more, but two other union bosses jodel -- del grosso. >> i would disagree we have progress as a result of unions. three days before, sanders led a protest march to complaint about plans to pay teachers based on how well their students do on test, they composed an anti-test song. john: i think i know why the union doesn't like testing. your results are awful among the lowest in the nation. >> you make an argument that is

it the lowest in the nation based upon thetivity scores, i -- test scores, i would say ours can get better. john: your predecessors, the unions have been saying that for years. >> the unions have a vehicle history of advocating for high quality public education. john: but not achieverring it. >> high test scores are not what we choose to focus on. john: how do you know if they are learning anything if you don't test them and compare. >> i know my kids are learning when i look in their eyes. john: protestor had celebrity support, actor matt damon was asked about rules ta make hard to hire union teachers. >> in acting there is job security, why isn't it like ha for teachers. >> you think that job insect 6 makeinsecuritymakes me word hare

this mba style thinking. john: business school idea, well, yes, charter schools, vouch irs and obama's to the top is based on idea that competition is good, if kid free to take their school money to any school, competition among schools, including for-profit chains, will force schools to get better or go out of business, but unions do not like that. >> there is a profit motive behind this extra testing. >> we need to get corporations out of the school. john: union said that school choice within a rich corporation, but further impoverish poor teachers. teachers paid enough? >> no. john: some makeover $100 thousand a year. >> they are not making enough. john: matt damon agrees with that, his mom is a union

teacher. >> a teacher wants to teach, why else would you take a [ bleep ] salary and real long hours? john: teachers make a [ bleep ] salary? maybe to matt damon, today american teachers make more per hour than account anes, nurses and architects. >> i can guarantee you, it is not about the money. john: a former dc politician. >> i gave the school system 300 million new dollars. the test scores went down, they grew central offers, they had more deputies to the asis to know to the deputy, they grow the bureaucracy. john: former district chancellor, michele rhee found that bigger barr crease di bured not even get school supplies to the kids. >> walking in there were no

schools in the library, no supplies and pencils, the following week i visited warehouse of the school district there were boxes and boxes of books and scissors and glues. john: why done they get to the school? >> that is the question. john: why didn't they? >> was a complete and utter sense of disfunction. john: the reason they call school bureaucracy the blob, it is like a bloby jabba the hut thing that can't be budged. the teachers union, janitor's union, and politicians and bureaucrat, if you try to make a change the blo says -- >> we don't do that here. it is crazy. >> union leaders escape that bureaucracy. john: you report to private school. >> correct, they made me feel hibbetter do pretty good in that

school or else. john: i'll confront the union bosses when we return, why condition other people have the choice -- why can't other people have the choice they had also. why does this cost a third of a million dollars to fire just one union teacher, what is wrong with these people?

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john: look who sent their the kids ts to private school, nancy pelosi, hillary clinton, al gore. >> the people who make the rules already have a choice, you know. politicians, i used to be a politician, they have choice. john: all these politicians who sent their kids to private school, oppose school choice for

regular people. >> thank you for taking my question president obama. i want to know whether or not you think that malia and sasha would get same high quality -- >> if i wanted to find a great public school for malia and sasha to be in, we could probably maneuver to do it. john: but he did not want to do it, the kids go to the same same school this vice president's grand kids arkansas 10, -- attending, tuition $30,000 a year. >> del grosso is he marched up to front to demand more saying my union contract mandating 7 more minutes. than i got. the contract is why the kids

suffer, your union is the problem. >> i think you know better. john: del grosso opposed letting kids scape his rules by allowing them to attend charter schools. >> over my dead body, they are going to come there, i will be there and physically try to stop them, there are certain things that don't mix, oil and water. >> there is no room. >> no, there is not half empty schools. john: del grosso said charters favor rich kids, but -- the charters get less. >> are not that much less. john: they get less, hardly the rich versus the poor. >> i'm happy for them. >> let them into your school. >> don't want them in our school. john: you are not happy for them, then. >> listen, does fox and cnn are they in the same building i don't think so. john: but fox and cnn can't

banishes competition, competition is good, that is why we have the networks, have you a choice, of what channel you will watch or school you attend, comp tig makes it better -- competition makes it better, del grosso understands that about his own education. >> my mother paid for me to go to it, it kind of made me feel that i had better do pretty good in that school. or else. john: so it sounds like you argue for unionized public school. >> moment at arguing against them. john: most of independent schools are still catholic schools doing a great job, for less than half of money you spend. >> i 1 say that. john: 17,000 versus 5,000? >> john, tell them to have another bingo game, and gets it over with. john: catholic schools fire bad teachers, but government run schools cannot. because, teachers get tenure,. john: why have tenure? most professions don't. >> when you went to organized crime you were a made person, like a ceremony, but not getting

tenure, that is say nice thing. >> you like organize crime, you are in forever unless you die or are killed? >> well, you -- there is that perspective. you are a good teacher, there is not be a problem. john: here is a problem. not every teacher is good, some are really lousy. >> it is impossible to fire the tenured teachers. >> why. john: >> there are a bill million steps. >> there is just one. >> not one step it is all these steps. this is list of steps required to fire a teacher in my town. this is why most principals don't try. they lock at list of appeals like this one and just give up. or they push the worst teachers to transfer to another school. that is a common way to avoid the rules there is a name for it the dance of the lemon, it would be funny but they leave some the kids stuck with terrible

teachers. >> are this is crazy. >> former police investigator said it takes years to fire an abusive teacher. john: a lot of people said he hit kids, the kids said it. >> and other teachers said it, that were in the classroom took me more years, $223,000 in legal fees and what it cost to have a substitute fill in while he is sitting home having having popcorn, paid by the district. john: he can't fire the teacher who faked hid do the could doctorate. >> he went to sleep in class. >> he was disturbed into the supervisor came in and woke him up. >> it never ends. >> whether we return, meet someone who successfully fired hundreds of teachers. >> you fired your own daughter's preans pal. >pal -- principal,.

>> that was a chilly night at home. ♪

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>> as we've seen education in america is a mess. what will fix it? who might fix it? >> somebody needs to fix it you can do it. >> oprah thinks that this woman can fix it. michelle is michelle rhee. >> acting chancellor. john: 5 years ago, she was manage picked to manage a dc school. >> i hadever run a school before, that is why people thought that i was a 37-year-old girl from toledo, ohio. john: people said, what, who? >> yeah, people said, he has lost his mind. john: her friends said she lost

hers. >> i have two kids, 9 and 12. and they i put them in the dc public school. john: the schools were a disaster,tivity results among the worst in america. chancellor rhee learned although 8% of the dc kids were in grade level, there was something odd about how the teachers wereraged. >> i looked add performance evaluation of adult in the system, how good are the teachers, i found 95% of the adults were righted doing a growth job, how you can have a system where all workers are thinking we're doing a great job, and what we're producing for them is 8% success. john: she visited schools and saw empty classrooms. >> i walked into a school, i go to gues first classroom, 5 kid,d then 9, and 3, so i get to fifth or 6th glass room, and i asked,

-- classroom, i asked where are all the kids, she said, well it's friday. i thought really? i cannot believe that was the answer, i said is that all, she said no. i thought she would say they or a fil feel trip, she said it is raining too,. john: attendant varied by teacher. >> i am finishing my visit, i walk into a classroom, there are 30 kids, not enough desks for the number of kids, there were kids sitting on radiators, i said, what do you think about the teacher, he said this is my best teacher, as i lift, the school, -- left the school, this was about 10:00 in the morning that young man and two of his friends warpe were walking out of school, i said, where do you

think you are going, they said, our first period teacher, he is great we came to school, but our second period teacher is not so good. so we're going to roll, i thought okay this is not the picture that the american public has in their mind of truance they made a decision to wake up early, to come for first period because they would get something out of it, and then not cam after that because they were not getting more. john: this great teacher gets paid no more than the others. rhee decided shy would pay good teachers more and fire bad teachers. >> that do not go over well. a few weeks into this, i was visited by my then general count, he says, you have to stop firing people. i said, why? this is people are not doing the

job they are supposed to do. we need nov them out, he said, welcome to dc public schools we never fire anyone. but we did. john: she found a 90 day loophole that let her close some lousy schools and fire some teachers. >> 30 school principals are being terminated. >> a plan, a ballot before she took the job to get rid of people who have been around who have tenure. john: you fired 200, of 4,000 teachers, fired your own daughter's principal. >> that was a chilly night at home. john: upset families, communities students and teachers, a lot of people got fired,. john: she said they deserved to be fired. >> many thought she needed to be fired. john: people hated you, and hate

you still. >> yeah, i was the wicked witch of the west, the hatchet lady, the dragon lady. john: the big bad witch. "time" magazine even put you on the cover with a broom. >> i took at broom to mean, sweeping house. john: the union said, poorly performing teachers need a second chance. >> don't have you some union teachers who are just lousy? we need to lift up the low performers, and help them do better. i have -- >> why not just fire them, maybe teaching is not for you? >> there is a cost to fire teachers, the quality of life of that person is deeply effected by that termination. john: nobody should ever be fired? >> well we should do is help people improve their skills. >> people would say, if a teacher is not effective you should talk about spending time

and effort to develop that person, i would say okay, but, whose children are we going to put in that classroom for this year. john: who are you going to practice on? >> right, who are you going to say, it done work out, sorry. john: she changed policy. >> i made a decision we would do layoffs by qua quality instead f seniority this really upset the apple cart. people you know, were protesting,. john: why would it? this is common sense. >> it is common sense to you and me, but it was couounter to who the district had always done, the way that the unions operate. seniority trumps -- >> but this teaches the good young people. >> forget the young teachers, it cheats the kids. john: test scores went up you were rhee when she was chancellor but in the end the

union won. >> we are getting her fired. john: the mayor who appointed her was voted out, when he lost, rhee quit before she was fired. >> rhee lost in dc, but elsewhere in america, all sorts of new school are succeeding, and exciting things are happening. my mother made the best toffee in the world.

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john: people who try to start charter schools say, the bureaucrats make it so hard they put up all of the obstacles. in one town, most kids now attend charters, how did that happen? >> hurricane katrina on track to make a hit on low lying city of new orleans. john: it happened because of a hurricane. >> all eyes on new orleans. >> this entire area will be underwater. >> mother nature is in charge, now mother nature has dealt a horrific blow. john: when hurricane katrina hit, it destroyed the schall

system. >> it was one of the worst school districts in the country. >> before katrina, our schools -- they were failing. >> do you rebuild what was there or build something new? john: louisiana built something new. they made it easy for people to open charters. >> you tell the state, here is my plan. john: ben started a school called academy. >> he put up signs advertising his school. >> this number here is my cell phone. john: he had to advertise students had to choose to go there, they didn't just get sent here because they lived mere by. >> we're putting these umeverywhere. john: he went to people's houses to recruit. >> living in new orleans, we never had that. >> her son reggie goes to the academy. >> he came out here, and

interviewed and talked to me then reggie, he explained about hours, and academics. john: only a third of the students were pro efficient on state tests. >> i know half of them did not know how to read. >> the academy's test results are, mock th among the best in . >> there is a plan in my mind for a permanent building. if you walk into a school, first thing they tell you are complains about the facility, they are not folk u.s.ed on the right thing -- focused on the right thing. the. john: the teachers have to perform, the principal is fire at will. >> yes, we have that contract at school. school. >> i call it freeing up a person's future. john: the charter law allows parents to fire a school, they can send their kid to another, sharon needs to work hard

because, she worries about losing her charter. >> yes, every day. >> good afternooning class. >> that competition drives schools to dry different things. like this morning ritual at see academy. this seems a little cult-like, some kids did not take it seriously but something works. >> it is amazing, a major difference, he has become more responsible since he has come here, thinking. >> i didn't like the school, at first, as i went to school, i started toment to go to college more because i saw how important it was. >> reggie's mother is getting ready to start college, reggie study ored her hear a test. >> this is how it should have been before katrina.

john: this charter has grown from one employee into another school that so popular it holds a lottery to decide who gets in. >> we're going to have a waiting list of about 200 students. >> this is sour first choice by far. >> you saw in harlem, nervous kids and relatives sit, hoping their name will be called. some go away happy. >> yea. john: most do not. >> it goes to show, this kind of school is badly needed not city, this kind of education is what we need to be offering every kid. john: today most kids in new orleans attend charter schools, and test scores across city are better. >> many of the greatest cities in world have been reborn amid crisis. the chicago fire resulted in a greater chicago built, trans earning, in a much more dynamic safer city. the fire of london resulted in a

much greater capital emerging, you know, people in new orleans, are let's building the city for the better of the school choice movement it is here to stay. john: in addition, more good news this time from internet. will blob should be worried, because look at how excited these kids are about math.

john: do your kids have a good teacher? how do you know? maybe the teacher next door is better? maybe there is a better teacher in a different state, maybe there is a world's best teacher or several. it would be great if your kids

had that teacher. today, you can. >> i got it. woo! yeah. 92 these kids are -- >> these kids are this excited about a mag web site. >> we're done. >> it out the me a lot. john: 5 years ago hedge fund analyst sal khan created videos like this to tutor his cousin. >> it worked out well. i had a friend say said, sal put your lectures on youtube, i gave it a shot. >> welcome to presentation on basic addition. john: thousands watched his lectures. >> i got letters from people, and comments on youtube, they are -- they are not like, hey i think this kind of might have helped, they are like, i got a -- i faileed calculus the first

time, i watched our video and now i'm acing the class. john: he got letters from middle east and africa. khan is now funded by bill gets, he has heck tires o lectures on every, his videos are viewed millions of times. >> even if god fore gi forbid it by a bus as i walkout side, i will still be able to reach the students. he is a great teacher. >> i hope that helps, see i in the next video. >> this is helping us learn more. john: it is exciting he gets kids excited about math. most parts of life, things are better, cars, and computers, and cell phones, education not so much. >> you go back 90 years, have you local band, if you had a

party that was only gig in town. john: each village had a story teller, but you have mass media, why not take best musician, and actor and story teller and record it, put it on radio on records or you know whatever, i think, in theory it could have happened wednesdaycasion before. john: but it nas not, even about basic math i thought they would use video games. >> most want to say no to change the system, a blob people call it. it is. people -- i think that is fun from our point of view we request reach students outside of the blob. john: this california school district started using khan's videos in fifth grade classrooms, the teachers were seam call but now they are impressed. >> they are happy to walk in the door every morning and excited about math.

john: we assume that most post on their own don't want to 11 or learn or get engaged in math. >> they are frustrated they are in classrooms that are not catering to them. john: at first teachers worried that on-line instruct coultion d replace them. >> they have taught more math than before. john: thousand teachers can computer orchids one-on-one. -- teachers can tutoring kids one-on-one. >> because they can go on their own pace. pace. >> students are still working on. >> and some kids enjoy khan's lessons so much may study at home. >> some do 2 or 3 hours a night at home, when i'm asking for 15 minutes. >> it is way more fun. john: after all these years of

kids being bored in school, that is over? >> i think it might be. john: hope so, in it happens it is thanks to those on-line classes or charter school or 94 94 other experiments, that break out of union dominated monopoly, let a thousand flowers bloom, competition has given us better medicine, it, technology, transportation. >> that is our show, i am john stossel, thanks for watching. 49! that's up to 76 percent below online providers and only at officemax stores! for their annual football trip. that's double miles you can actually use. tragically, their ddy got sack by blackouts.

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